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Share Share Article via Facebook Share Article via Twitter Share Article via LinkedIn Share Article via EmailChina's chip equipment makers won't catch up in the foreseeable future, research firm saysDan Hutcheson, vice chair of TechInsights, says "even ASML can't make their tools without having a distributed supply chain."
Persons: Dan Hutcheson
The U.S. has passed a series of export controls starting in October 2022 aimed at restricting China's access to advanced chip technology, particularly those used in AI applications. According to data from tech consultancy Omdia, China consumes nearly 50% of the world's semiconductors as it is the biggest market for assembling consumer devices. But, soon after, it was reported that Nvidia was working on a new chip made for China. The company did not respond to a request for comment on their plans for the China market. An analysis of Huawei's Mate 60 Pro smartphone by TechInsights revealed an advanced chip made by China's top chip maker, SMIC.
Persons: Wong Yu Liang, Chris Miller, William B, Bailey, Donald Trump, TechInsights Organizations: AMD MU, P Global, Intel, Broadcom, Qualcomm, Marvell Technology, U.S, The, CNBC, Nasdaq, Intelligence, Micron Technology, AMD, Nvidia, Huawei, Semiconductor Industry Association, America's Micron, country's Cyberspace Administration, Micron Locations: China, The U.S, U.S, Washington, Xi'an, Netherlands, Beijing
China could face more semiconductor export curbs from the likes of the U.S. and the Netherlands to contain the Asian powerhouse's chip tech, analysts told CNBC. Earlier this year, the Netherlands blocked Dutch semiconductor equipment maker ASML from exporting some of its deep ultraviolet lithography systems to China. It came after the U.S. tightened export controls on advanced semiconductors and chipmaking tools to China in October last year, building on previous rules. "I wouldn't be surprised if there's more [U.S. restrictions] coming just because we're still in the middle of this tit-for-tat. Beijing slammed the Dutch government's move, urging the Netherlands to "uphold an objective and fair position and market principles."
Persons: we're, Dan Hutcheson Organizations: CNBC, U.S, China's Ministry of Commerce Locations: China, Netherlands, Beijing, U.S, TechInsights
Share Share Article via Facebook Share Article via Twitter Share Article via LinkedIn Share Article via EmailAnalyst says he wouldn't be surprised if there are more U.S. chip export controls on ChinaDan Hutcheson, vice chair and senior fellow at TechInsights, says "we're still in the middle of this tit-for-tat and there's a lot of hawks in the United States."
Persons: wouldn't, China Dan Hutcheson, we're Locations: U.S, China, United States
A view of a Nvidia logo at their headquarters in Taipei, Taiwan May 31, 2023. U.S. officials asked for input in devising a "tamperproof" way to keep systems that might contain up to 256 AI chips from being strung together into a supercomputer. The other primary gift that U.S. officials gave Nvidia, Intel and AMD was hobbling their most capable Chinese competitors. New rules will make it nearly impossible for Moore Threads and Biren, two well-funded Chinese startups founded by Nvidia veterans, to have their designs manufactured using cutting-edge chipmaking technology. That means whatever Nvidia is able to sell to China will likely be Chinese buyers' best legal option.
Persons: Ann Wang, ChatGPT, Thomas Krueger, They're, Moore, Piper Sandler, Dan Hutcheson, Japan's, Clete Willems, Akin Gump, Gregory Allen, David Kanter, Stephen Nellis, Max A, Kenneth Li, Jamie Freed Organizations: REUTERS, FRANCISCO, Biden, Nvidia, Intel, Devices, U.S . Bureau of Industry and Security, U.S . National Security Council, BIS, AMD, Japan's Nikon, U.S, Center for Strategic, International Studies, Real, Thomson Locations: Taipei, Taiwan, China, U.S, Netherlands, Japan, San Francisco
Hauwei also unveiled new smartphones in recent weeks that use advanced chips, which analysts say are domestically made. "These surveillance chips are relatively easy to manufacture compared to smartphone processors," said the source familiar with the surveillance camera industry's supply chain, adding that HiSilicon's return would shake up the market. A key factor is that the company appears to have worked around U.S. restrictions on chip design software. Huawei has not commented on the phone's 5G capabilities or how it produced the advanced chip. The United States has no evidence that Huawei can produce smartphones with advanced chips in large volumes, U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said on Tuesday.
Persons: Hauwei, Frost, Sullivan, HiSilicon, Taiwan's TSMC, Gina Raimondo, Dan Hutcheson, Shanghai Newsrooms, Fanny Potkin, Gerry Doyle Organizations: Huawei Technologies, Huawei, Securities, Novatek Microelectronics Corp, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, HK, Kirin, United, . Commerce, Cadence Design Systems, Synopsys Inc, Siemens, Thomson Locations: BEIJING, SHANGHAI, U.S, Kirin, China, United States, Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore
Huawei also unveiled new smartphones in recent weeks that use advanced chips, which analysts say are domestically made. "These surveillance chips are relatively easy to manufacture compared to smartphone processors," said the source familiar with the surveillance camera industry's supply chain, adding that HiSilicon's return would shake up the market. A key factor is that the company appears to have worked around U.S. restrictions on chip design software. HiSilicon mainly supplies chips for Huawei equipment but has had external customers such as Dahua Technology (002236.SZ) and Hikvision (002415.SZ). The United States has no evidence that Huawei can produce smartphones with advanced chips in large volumes, U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said on Tuesday.
Persons: Florence, Frost, Sullivan, HiSilicon, Taiwan's TSMC, Gina Raimondo, Dan Hutcheson, Shanghai Newsrooms, Fanny Potkin, Gerry Doyle Organizations: Security China, REUTERS, Rights, Huawei Technologies, Huawei, Securities, Novatek Microelectronics Corp, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, HK, Kirin, United, . Commerce, Cadence Design Systems, Synopsys Inc, Siemens, Thomson Locations: Beijing, China, Rights BEIJING, SHANGHAI, U.S, Kirin, United States, Shanghai, Singapore
Hong Kong CNN —Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo says the US government has no evidence that Huawei can produce smartphones with advanced chips “at scale,” as it continues to investigate how the sanctioned Chinese manufacturer made an apparent breakthrough with its latest flagship device. On Tuesday, Raimondo told US lawmakers that she was “upset” by news of the launch of Huawei’s Mate 60 Pro during her visit to China last month. “The only good news, if there is any, is we don’t have any evidence that they can manufacture 7-nanometer [chips] at scale,” she told a US House of Representatives hearing. That surprised many because SMIC, a partially state-owned Chinese company, has also been subject to US export restrictions for years. The following year, the US government expanded on those curbs by seeking to cut Huawei off from chip suppliers that use US technology.
Persons: Gina Raimondo, Raimondo, China’s, TechInsights, Ivan Lam, Kevin Frayer, Toby Zhu, Zhu, Lam, — Rashard Rose, Mengchen Zhang Organizations: Hong Kong CNN —, Huawei, Kirin, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, CNN, SK Hynix, Huawei ”, Research, IT, Eurasia Group Locations: China, Hong Kong, Korean, Beijing, Shenzhen, Apple’s
There is no Chinese company that can do what TSMC does. Along with Huawei, SMIC is on a U.S. trade blacklist called the Entity List. The 7nm process is seen as highly-advanced in the world of semiconductors, even though it is not the latest technology. While SMIC is able to create 7nm chips, it's unclear how efficient, profitable and sustainable that is on a bigger scale. While the yield of SMIC's 7nm process for Huawei chips is not known, it is "probably low," Kotasthane said.
Persons: Aly Song, Donald Trump, shockwaves, SMIC, Dan Hutcheson, Kotasthane Organizations: Apple, Reuters Apple, Huawei, China's, Chinese Communist Party, U.S ., Samsung, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co, SMIC, 5G, CNBC, Takshashila, The U.S . Department of Commerce, Street, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, U.S Locations: Shanghai, China, U.S, Washington, . U.S, The
The capability, which Intel showed off during a software developer conference held in Silicon Valley, could let businesses and consumers test ChatGPT-style technologies without sending sensitive data off their own computer. It is made possible by new AI data-crunching features built into Intel's forthcoming "Meteor Lake" laptop chip and from new software tools the company is releasing. Intel said on Tuesday that it was building a new supercomputer that would be used by Stability AI, a startup that makes image-generating software. China's Alibaba Group Holdings (9988.HK) is using its newest central processors to serve up chatbot technology, Intel said. If Intel Chief Gelsinger can make AI "so that anyone can use it, that creates a much bigger market for chips – the chips that he makes," Hutcheson said.
Persons: Arnd, Taylor Swift, Pat Gelsinger, Gelsinger, Sachin Katti, Dan Hutcheson, TechInsights, Hutcheson, Stephen Nellis, Max Cherney, Peter Henderson, Lincoln, Josie Kao Organizations: Intel Corporation, REUTERS, JOSE, Intel, ., Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing, Nvidia, Stability, Alibaba, Holdings, Meta, Reuters, Thomson Locations: Davos, Switzerland, California, Silicon Valley, HK, San Francisco, San Jose , California
The Shenzhen-based company has not explained exactly how seven-nanometer chips ended up in the new Mate 60 Pro smartphone series. Analysts estimate deliveries of the Mate 60 Pro could top 5 million this year. Follow @KatrinaHamlin on XCONTEXT NEWSHuawei started preselling its Mate 60 Pro+ smartphone alongside a new foldable phone in September. The Chinese company started selling its high-end smartphones Mate 60 and Mate 60 Pro at the end of August. The Huawei Mate 60 Pro contained a 7-nanometer processor that was made in China by Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, according to analysts at TechInsights.
Persons: TSMC, TechInsights, Una Galani, Thomas Shum Organizations: Reuters, TechInsights, Kirin, Manufacturing International Corp, HK, Washington, SK Hynix, Huawei, TSMC, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, SK, South, Bloomberg, Thomson Locations: HONG KONG, China, Shenzhen, Beijing
China says it hasn't issued any ban on iPhones
  + stars: | 2023-09-13 | by ( Mengchen Zhang | ) edition.cnn.com   time to read: +1 min
Beijing CNN —China hasn’t issued any laws or rules to ban the use of iPhones or any other foreign phone brand, a Chinese government spokesperson said on Wednesday. Bloomberg/Getty ImagesLast week, The Wall Street Journal reported that China had banned the use of iPhones by central government officials, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter. China is the largest foreign market for the company’s products, and Chinese sales represented about a fifth of the company’s total revenue last year. The company doesn’t disclose iPhone sales by country, but analysts at research firm TechInsights estimate that there were more iPhone sales in China than in the United States last quarter. Apple also produces the majority of its iPhones in Chinese factories.
Persons: China hasn’t, , Mao Ning, ” Mao, Apple hasn’t Organizations: Beijing CNN, ” Ministry of Foreign, Apple Inc, Bloomberg, Getty, Street Journal, Apple Locations: Beijing, China, United States
Qualcomm said Monday that it will supply Apple with 5G modems for smartphones through 2026. Wall Street analysts and Qualcomm officials had previously said they expected Apple to use an internally developed 5G modem starting in 2024. Qualcomm currently supplies Apple with 5G modems for its iPhones, but Apple has been working to build its own modems to move away from Qualcomm chips. A Qualcomm official said the company was not updating its guidance to take in account the Apple sales. Apple is expected to announce new iPhones, likely called iPhone 15, on Tuesday, which will use Qualcomm modems.
Persons: TechInsights Organizations: Apple, Qualcomm, Wall Street, UBS, Intel, CNBC Locations: Hangzhou, East China's Zhejiang province, China, United States
The Mate 60 is priced from 5,999 yuan ($817.70), the same as Apple's iPhone 14 in China. Huawei's launch also comes days before Apple is expected to launch its new iPhone 15 on Sept. 12.WHO ARE THE MATE 60'S SUPPLIERS? The Mate 60 Pro contains more Chinese-made chip components than previous models, TechInsights also said. WHAT COULD IT MEAN FOR APPLE IN CHINA'S SMARTPHONE MARKET? And cumulative shipments of Mate 60 Pro could reach at least 12 million units 12 months after launch, according to Kuo.
Persons: TechInsights, Chi Kuo, Kuo, Yelin Mo, Brenda Goh, Emelia Sithole Organizations: China's Huawei Technologies, Apple, Huawei, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, HK, WHO, South Korea's SK Hynix's, SK Hynix, Dongguan Chitwing Technology, ., Visionox Technology, Reuters, TF International Securities, Thomson Locations: BEIJING, SHANGHAI, China, Kirin, SMIC, South, United States, Dongguan, Suzhou, U.S, Washington, Beijing
China's Huawei launches Mate 60 Pro+ smartphone for presale
  + stars: | 2023-09-08 | by ( ) www.reuters.com   time to read: +1 min
People walk past a Huawei store with advertisements for the Mate 60 series smartphones, at a shopping mall in Beijing, China August 30, 2023. REUTERS/Yelin Mo/File Photo Acquire Licensing RightsBEIJING, Sept 8 (Reuters) - China's Huawei Technologies on Friday started presales for its Mate 60 Pro+ smartphone, adding a new version to a series that has captured global attention for revealing the Chinese tech firm's success in beating back against U.S. sanctions. Specifications the company provided for the phone touted its capability to link-up to two satellites concurrently and larger internal storage versus the Mate 60 Pro. Speed tests shared by buyers on Chinese social media have suggested that the Mate 60 Pro is capable of download speeds exceeding those of top-line 5G phones. The company on Friday also launched the Huawei Mate X5, a new version of its foldable phone series.
Persons: Yelin, presales, TechInsights, Edmund Klamann, Stephen Coates Organizations: Huawei, REUTERS, Rights, Huawei Technologies, U.S, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, HK, Beijing, Thomson Locations: Beijing, China, Rights BEIJING, Kirin
Some analysts feel the Huawei moves could be a first step in comeback efforts by China's "national champion" to rival Apple. By contrast with the hit for Apple suppliers, Huawei's extended recent gains. Reuters GraphicsSCOPE OF CURBS UNCLEARIt was not immediately clear how wide China's iPhone curbs are, but one employee at an affected state-owned enterprise (SOEs) in the capital said they extended to visitors. However, Canalys analyst Nicole Peng said Huawei could present a greater threat to domestic peers, such as Honor, which had benefited from Huawei's woes. The U.S. Commerce Department is seeking more information on the "character and composition" of the new Huawei chip that may violate trade curbs, it said on Thursday.
Persons: Ann Wang, chipmaker TSMC, China's, Ivan Lam, Ming, Chi Kuo, Nicole Peng, TechInsights, Jeanny Kao, David Kirton, Jason Xue, Yelin Mo, Ellen Zhang, Sam Nussey, Miyoung Kim, Clarence Fernandez Organizations: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing, REUTERS, Rights, Huawei, Apple, Largan, Industry, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, Reuters, Bank of America, TF International Securities, Street, Washington, U.S . Commerce Department, Shanghai Newsroom, Thomson Locations: Hsinchu, Taiwan, Rights SHANGHAI, TAIPEI, U.S, Beijing, Taipei, TW, iPhones, China, Shenzhen, Shanghai, Tokyo
Hong Kong/Seoul CNN —SK Hynix, a South Korean chipmaker, is investigating how two of its memory chips mysteriously ended up inside the Mate 60 Pro, a controversial smartphone launched by Huawei last week. “The significance of the development is that there are restrictions on what SK Hynix can ship to China,” G Dan Hutcheson, vice chair of TechInsights, told CNN. The big question is whether any laws were violated.”A Hynix spokesperson told CNN Friday that it was aware of its chips being used in the Huawei phone and had started investigating the issue. “SK Hynix is strictly abiding by the US government’s export restrictions,” the company said. Industry insiders said it was possible that Huawei had purchased the memory chips from the secondary market and not directly from the manufacturer.
Persons: ” G Dan Hutcheson, It’s, TechInsights, Mike Gallagher, Michael McCaul Organizations: Seoul CNN — SK Hynix, Huawei, SK Hynix, CNN, “ SK Hynix, US, Industry, 5G Kirin, chipmaker Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, White Locations: Hong Kong, Seoul, Korean, Hynix, Canada, China, United States, Shenzhen
People walk past a Huawei store with advertisements for the Mate 60 series smartphones, at a shopping mall in Beijing, China August 30, 2023. REUTERS/Yelin Mo/File Photo Acquire Licensing RightsSHANGHAI, Sept 7 (Reuters) - Huawei Technologies' new high-end smartphone contains more China-made chip components than previous models in a sign of Beijing's advances in the semiconductor sphere, according to research firm TechInsights, which is taking the device apart. That's another really big advance they've made," Dan Hutcheson, an analyst with TechInsights, told Reuters. "The significance is that it shows that China has been able to stay 2-2.5 nodes behind the world's best (chip) companies. "China's been buying tools like crazy so they probably have the capability to do this and yield ok with it."
Persons: Yelin, they've, Dan Hutcheson, TechInsights, chipmaker SMIC, Hutcheson, Gina Raimondo's, it's, China's, Brenda Goh, Joyce Lee, David Kirton, Miyoung Kim, David Evans Organizations: Huawei, REUTERS, Rights, Huawei Technologies, Reuters, The, HK, U.S . Commerce, SMIC, Apple, South Korea's SK Hynix Inc, SK Hynix, U.S, Thomson Locations: Beijing, China, The Ottawa, Huawei's, U.S, Seoul, Shenzhen
New York CNN —Shares of Apple fell by 3.4% on Thursday following reports that China plans to expand a ban on the use of iPhones to government-backed agencies and companies. The company is set to lose about $200 billion in two days and its stock is currently the worst performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. China is the largest foreign market for the company’s products and Chinese sales represented about a fifth of the company’s total revenue last year. Apple doesn’t disclose iPhone sales by country but analysts at research firm TechInsights estimate that there were more iPhone sales in China than in the United States last quarter. CNN has reached out to Apple and to China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but has not received a response.
Persons: Brandon Nispel, , Jake Sullivan Organizations: New, New York CNN, Apple, Investors, Dow Jones, KeyBanc, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Bank of America, Huawei, National, House, Tech, Nasdaq, CNN, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs Locations: New York, China, United States, Cupertino , California
Hong Kong CNN —Shares in SMIC, China’s largest contract chipmaker, plunged on Thursday, after two US congressmen called on the White House to further restrict export sales to the company. The comments came after Huawei Technologies introduced the Mate 60 Pro, a Chinese smartphone powered by an advanced chip that is believed to have been made by SMIC. TechInsights, a research organization based in Canada specializing in semiconductors, revealed shortly after the launch that the smartphone contained a new 5G Kirin 9000s processor developed specifically for Huawei by SMIC. Gallagher was quoted as saying SMIC may have violated US sanctions, as this chip likely could not be produced without US technology. Hua Hong Semiconductor, China’s second largest chip foundry, tumbled 4.8%.
Persons: SMIC, ” Jefferies, Qilai Shen, Mike Gallagher, Gallagher, , Texas Republican Michael McCaul, , Gina Raimondo, Raimondo, SMIC’s, Biden Organizations: Hong Kong CNN —, House, Huawei Technologies, Kirin, Huawei, SMIC, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, Bloomberg, Getty, US Commerce Department, Reuters, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, Hua Hong Semiconductor, Texas Republican, Foreign Affairs Committee, US, US Commerce, Huahong Semiconductor, CNN, Jefferies Locations: China, Hong Kong, SMIC, China’s, Chinese, Shanghai, United States, Canada
People walk past a Huawei store with advertisements for the Mate 60 series smartphones, at a shopping mall in Beijing, China August 30, 2023. That's another really big advance they've made," Dan Hutcheson, an analyst with TechInsights, told Reuters. "The significance is that it shows that China has been able to stay 2-2.5 nodes behind the world's best (chip) companies. "China's been buying tools like crazy so they probably have the capability to do this and yield ok with it." Huawei and SMIC did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Persons: Yelin, they've, Dan Hutcheson, TechInsights, chipmaker SMIC, Hutcheson, Gina Raimondo's, it's, China's, Brenda Goh, Joyce Lee, David Kirton, Miyoung Kim, David Evans Organizations: Huawei, REUTERS, Rights, Huawei Technologies, Reuters, The, HK, U.S . Commerce, SMIC, Apple, South Korea's SK Hynix Inc, SK Hynix, U.S, Thomson Locations: Beijing, China, The Ottawa, Huawei's, U.S, Seoul, Shenzhen
Apple’s China conundrumShares in Apple, the world’s most valuable public company, suffered their biggest single-day fall in a month on Wednesday following a report that China would extend a ban on iPhones for government workers. China may be making things tougher for Apple. (Some Western governments, including the United States, already bar public employees from using TikTok, the Chinese-owned video platform, and devices made by China’s Huawei.) Apple manufactures most of its hardware in China, and the country accounted for about a fifth of total revenue last year. Apple doesn’t break out iPhone sales in the country, but TechInsights, a market research firm, estimates that in terms of second-quarter shipments, China was a bigger market than the United States.
Persons: China’s Organizations: Apple, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, China’s Huawei Locations: China, United States
Chinese media have referred to the phone as a sign of the country’s technological independence, but U.S. analysts said the achievement still most likely hinged on the use of American technology and machinery, which would have been in violation of U.S. trade restrictions. For the past several years, those restrictions have curtailed Huawei’s ability to produce 5G phones. But Huawei appears to have found a way around those restrictions to make an advanced phone, at least in limited quantities. Though detailed information about the phone is limited, Huawei’s jade-green Mate 60 Pro appears to have many of the same basic capabilities as other smartphones on the market. An examination of the phone by TechInsights, a Canadian firm that analyzes the semiconductor industry, concluded that the advanced chip inside was manufactured by Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation of China and was operating beyond the technology limits that the United States has been trying to enforce.
Persons: Trump, Biden, Douglas Fuller, SMIC Organizations: Huawei, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation of China, Copenhagen Business School Locations: United States, China
CNN —The United States government is seeking more information about the Huawei Mate 60 Pro, a Chinese smartphone powered by an advanced chip. The government cited perceived national security concerns, such as the potential for cyberattacks or spying from the Chinese governement. The inclusion of a custom-built 5G chip would be a major benchmark for Huawei as it grapples with the impact of the US restrictions on its device business. But he said the launch also raises questions around how Huawei managed to launch the phone when it has spent the past four years under US restrictions banning access to 5G technology. “While access to 5G for the chipset is one thing, I’m not sure how the company managed to source all the other components that need to go into a 5G smartphone, such as power amps, switches and filters,” he said.
Persons: Jake Sullivan, , ” David McQueen, TechInsights, Sullivan Organizations: CNN, United, Huawei, Kirin, US National, House, ABI Research, China’s Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation Locations: United States, Chinese, China
The difficulty of this achievement also shows the resilience of the country’s chip technological ability," TechInsights analyst Dan Hutcheson said. EUV refers to extreme ultraviolet lithography and is used to make 7 nm or more advanced chips. LIMITED ACHIEVEMENTThe most advanced chip SMIC had previously been known for making was 14nm, as it was barred by Washington in late 2020 from obtaining an EUV machine from Dutch firm ASML (ASML.AS). But TechInsights last year said it believed SMIC had managed to produce 7 nm chips by tweaking simpler DUV machines it could still purchase freely from ASML. Jefferies analysts reckon Huawei is preparing to ship ten million units of the Mate 60 Pro, though it may struggle to support that quantity with China-made 7 nm chips.
Persons: Gina Raimondo's, chipmaker SMIC, Dan Hutcheson, EUV, Jefferies, TechInsights, SMIC, Tilly Zhang, Dragonomics, Zhang, Doug Fuller, David Kirton, Max Cherney, Brenda Goh, Miyoung Kim, Nick Zieminski Organizations: FRANCISCO, Huawei Technologies, U.S, Huawei, U.S . Commerce, Kirin, HK, U.S . Commerce Department's, of Industry, Security, China, U.S . Department of Commerce, China's State Council, Reuters, Copenhagen Business School, Thomson Locations: SHENZHEN, China, California, Washington, Ottawa, U.S, China's, Netherlands
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